Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

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Dr.MonaLisa
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by Dr.MonaLisa »

It is no exaggeration to call him a friend as far as the world of the web is concerned. And this is the point, his behavior, as already said, has deeply disappointed and hurt me.
Excuse me, but I can't read this bullshit.

You've been reported for a reason, after kosta asked me for help in creating the report.

If I didn't report it, I would be considered as the one who is not neutral towards all players, and as the one who "protects eW members".

I don't see any difference if it's me creating the topic, or kosta himself. Because the discussion has its point.

The "friendship" and the official Ministry stuff it totally unrelated. I never consider players as "friends" when I'm using this subforum. It's very simple to understand. Maybe it also reveals that I'm not that "corrupted" as many players are trying to prove in jokes.

I'm Dr.MonaLisa who can be a friend of many players, but I'm also the Minister of the Department of Control: https://ee2.eu/government/#departments
Role: Controlling Unofficial Patch 1.5 users (especially Multiplayer community) to protect the community from harmful behaviours caused by other players. Checking reliabilities of player reports and issuing punishments in case when reported player's behaviour harms the community. Verifying if players and other Ministers respect rules from the active Government Acts (Amending Act / Law / EE2 Constitution*).
It's my obligation to do what I did. And the fact you're an eWA member gives even more rights to do it, because we expect a little higher standards from our clan members.
IndieRock00 wrote: 22 Dec 2021, 15:02And anyway I didn't break the rules: the scout was already present before the game started so as the post says, if the rules are enabled you can use him to attack. This makes my arguments better understood.

Code: Select all

- If scout is enabled:
* No_rules: It's allowed to attack with the first and all other scouts.
* Yes_rules: The first scout can be used to rush the enemy, but no more than 1 (this can be annoying in epochs 13+ where scouts have a range attack ability).
source:viewtopic.php?f=58&t=5480
Did you actually read that topic? There were dozens of propositions regarding "no scout rush" rules. Quoting 1 of proposition doesn't make it as an active law.

For now "Yes_rules" say: no spies, no nukes, no rams, no scout rush.

Prof.Noob almost always hosts yes_rules games.

You knew there are active rules, because you (or nobody else in game) didn't produce rams, which are the first thing to do in that epoch in no_rules game.

You have been muted from Lobby (excluding in-game chat) for a disrespectful behaviour, or in simple words just a personal attack on me. If you had your arguments you could post them instead of demanding "apology" from me, while I have no reason to apology for anything.

You make two totally conflicting statements:
It's absurd and heavily insulting, especially if he's someone you think is important and highly esteemed.
First you're posting disrespectful replies that show no arguments at all. You demand an "apology" and ridiculous things like this.
Next message you're calling me "important and highly esteemed".

I would understand if you had a bad day, but you're literally continuing it now. Kosta himself confirmed to be the victim of this situation. Why didn't you actually apologize to him, which would solve the whole topic instantly? If it was kosta who opened the topic, you would treat it differently? Just because it wasn't me?

And a cherry on a cake were messages like: "either you ban me". You pretty much were aware how cases on the forum are resolved, and you pretty much knew that ban isn't a thing to consider in such a minor cases. But still you had to wrote it, for what purpose? To show that "Mona" will do something that has never done for reasons like this?

Added after 16 minutes 36 seconds:
Just to make it clear, I don't find the "attack on me" as a big deal. I don't take it personally. The thing is you're trying to blackmail me, demanding apology for something that doesn't need it. Then bringing up that you'll stop playing, etc. also fits the definition of blackmailing. Do you think that throwing threats will actually work on me? If that's the case, then all I can reply with is: Arrivederci Roma!
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by Matty »

Hello guys!

Sorry for the delay!

About the case there is not really much to say. When no_rules is not explicitly said, that's yes_rules. This rule might be not written anywhere but people respect it most of the times. If this was not the case too many ram and spy rush opportunities were missed and, even though new players generation doesn't really know how to play no-rules games, such an ignorance would not be much believable.
Breaking a lance to Indie's favor, the "No Scout Rush" rule is not as much respected as the "No Rams" rule. I still remember yes_rules games against good players who attacked me with their scout. I didn't say anything but it was annoying because when you don't expect it your start might fail just by distraction, however they probably weren't aware of breaking the rules.
So... Indie's use was still wrong and happened to be more decisive than it generally is, but that's the most frequently broken rule. Moreover, a lot of players sometimes decide to troll or to simply not respect rules. It's not a nice thing, of course, but it can be understandable until it doesn't become a habit.

What I think is more important is to solve this case between Indie and Mona.
I feel like Indie would have responded much better if the author of the post was Kosta himself. Since it was Mona to report the case Indie probably saw it as a forced way to make an unnecessary report. About this, Indie probably would like fewer and more important reports because an excess of them can become source of discord and other negative feelings. Mona, on the other side, thinks that regulating also the smaller things is not a bad thing and that can help the situation.
Which of these approaches will benefit ee2 more in the long term? Hard to tell, because there is some truth in both of them, however time is another important factor to consider(it took me 3 hours to make this post). If the damaged player doesn't even have time to post the report himself or to learn how to do it, he most likely doesn't care too much, so is it really worth our time?

To sum up:
-Was Indie wrong in this case? Yeah.
-Was the case itself reportable? Yeah. Very small case but still valid.
-Should a case be reported by another player (not the damaged one)? If that's an important case it's okay, otherwise I would expect at least the damaged player to write the case himself.

Special thanks to Gnooty for his constant high quality participation! That certainly helps!
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by Dr.MonaLisa »

I removed the Lobby mute from IndieRock00's account(s) now.

As first, huge thanks to Minister Matty for analysis of this case, even when he's sick he spent time on us.

I must admit that it was an experiment. I had a plan to create a new position in the Ministry of Game Affairs, which would be named: "Public Prosecutor General".
I thought about "hiring" a person who is often observing games to take this position. I think I even asked Gnooty if he would be interested in it. Then I also realized, that Department of Control in its description mentions that it's supposed to "control players", to make the community as safe for all players as possible.

One day, I had a bit of free time, and decided to create reports from cases that I've personally seen during the past week. Therefore 3 or 4 topics were created.

The reports on forum are not always created in order to punish players. They're created to track behaviours which lead us to improve the Acts, create new guidelines. Creating this report was somehow related to the Scout Rush discussion topic. I wanted to collect some of cases in order to use them as arguments / basis when we finally regulate the no scout rush. If games of this type are not reported, everyone thinks like it's not a problem. If such situations are not posted on forum - we are quickly forgetting about them. So the problem still exists, but is not discussed because the case is so soft that nobody thinks it's a reason for a report. And I agree with that.

However, Indie's reaction was too personal. It was obvious that no punishment would be issued in this certain cases, and we don't need to be related to the Department of Justice to figure it out. He behaved like some kind of Diva. I understand that being reported might be treated as something negative, but I think that the content matters more than this fact. After all, everyone can see what the report is about. I am pretty sure that many players have the same reaction that it is unnecessary, or that the Ministry is trying to control independent players. So such reports can also damage the opinion about the Ministry, if other players find it as unnecessary. Therefore I don't understand Indie's behaviour where he went a bit too negative towards me, without providing some real arguments. Even if he wanted to prove a valid point, it all turned against him. I have read messages from at least 3 players, where (in joke) he was compared to TheKnight.

I also must admit that it all started when he tried to silence Observers during that game (in not so nice way). He has rights to do it (especially because he wrote after game that it's a joke), but it also puts some blame on him for this topic.

I am a friend with many players, including Kiffke who has been reported too (and I think it was multiple times that he was reported by me). His reaction however, was totally different, quick and always made the cases to be closed quickly.

I would recommend to really not treat things that happen in the Ministry of Game Affairs subforum as personal attacks. It's like politics, they meet outside of the parliament, talk and joke around, but when it comes to the real voting they might give negatives speech against their opponents.

My position is especially hard. I've been falsely accused so many times of protecting ~eW` clan members from being punished, that I can't count it using all fingers. The truth is, ~eW` members have ALWAYS been treated harder by me than ordinary players. I demanded a bit higher standards from the clan members, than from other players. It's because by applying to ~eW`, and getting acceptance of many players in the clan you automatically became an object of control. Your behaviour is observed, as ~eWA` you're collecting stars for good behaviour, games, etc. So I don't find this report as something abnormal, that I wouldn't do in the past. I think even Devi had some short punishment for something before. I never asked how he felt about that, but somehow this subject wasn't brought up during normal chattings.

I hope I made the situation clearer. I can agree that the report is very soft and could be avoided, but at the same time I want to mention one more time, that I have nothing to apology for. So blackmailing me with "I'll quit EE2" arguments won't make change my mind.

Merry Christmas.
Best regards,
Dr.MonaLisa
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by IndieRock00 »

I accept the actions taken by the Ministers. And I'm sorry for my severe overreaction.

Not having been the first time that I notice a way of doing things with which I find myself very much in disagreement and seeing that this action has also affected me, I wanted to express this disappointment. Unfortunately, I took it too personally and saw the consequences. Let me be clear that my negative sentiment concerns the Minister as such and not as a person. Not being a public official here, but rather a simple player who wants to enjoy the game to the full, I am not required to have to introduce myself here in a completely formal capacity. Due to these contrasts I believe that today the best choice is to take an indefinite break from playing ee2 as I no longer feel comfortable here.
I do not rule out the possibility of visiting from time to time to see what the air is like. However, I will remain active on the Discord channel.

Thank you all and sorry for the waste of time.
Long life and prosperity. 🖖
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by Matty »

IndieRock00 wrote: 26 Dec 2021, 11:45 I accept the actions taken by the Ministers. And I'm sorry for my severe overreaction.

Not having been the first time that I notice a way of doing things with which I find myself very much in disagreement and seeing that this action has also affected me, I wanted to express this disappointment. Unfortunately, I took it too personally and saw the consequences. Let me be clear that my negative sentiment concerns the Minister as such and not as a person. Not being a public official here, but rather a simple player who wants to enjoy the game to the full, I am not required to have to introduce myself here in a completely formal capacity. Due to these contrasts I believe that today the best choice is to take an indefinite break from playing ee2 as I no longer feel comfortable here.
I do not rule out the possibility of visiting from time to time to see what the air is like. However, I will remain active on the Discord channel.

Thank you all and sorry for the waste of time.
It's perfectly fine to take a break. I did it so many times and it was not always easy to tell the reason behind it. Very often there are non-related to ee2 facts that start to affect your gaming experience and which might not be perceived as the main source of negative feelings.
Almost everytime I took a break from ee2 there was something about the game that happened and that I didn't like, but in the end that was just a symptom of a bigger thing, not actually related to ee2. Not saying this is your case as well, but I suggest you to re-evaluate again the reason why you need a break.

You didn't waste our time, you never did.
Hope you'll be there when I'll have some time to play ee2.
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by IndieRock00 »

You are right, there are more reasons even not related to ee2. I think this story is a kind of inopportune outlet for the context in which we are. I'm really sorry for the bad thoughts directed at Mona (she didn't deserve so many :P). We will definitely meet again on the battlefield. I will come back when I am in the most suitable and serene conditions to play in peace, like the IndieRock you know.
Long life and prosperity. 🖖
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by Dr.MonaLisa »

Indie, for the past 4+ months you also have not played / observed much: https://ee2.eu/multiplayer/rating/?skir ... ndieRock00

Therefore I find it unfair that you've tried to redirect the blame on me. Cumulative moments can't excuse the overall attitude. Sorry for bringing such things up, but years of "work" in the Department of Control made me behave this way.

It's nothing wrong to make breaks. Even I had them a few years ago, before UP1.5 got too complex to leave it for just 1 day.

However, the huge difference is when you're taking breaks on purpose (and announce it), and when you're taking breaks just to recharge batteries.
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Re: Reporting player ~eWA`~>IndieRock00 for breaking the game rules and then verbally attacking observers

Post by Dr.MonaLisa »

The topic will be closed as the case is solved, no new messages were posted and it's better to hide it from the welcome message on Lobby.

If somebody wants to add something, please contact me on Private so I'll re-open it.
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